Interview with Diane Haeger, author of the Queen's Mistake

Scandalous Women is pleased to welcome Diane Haeger to the blog.

Welcome, Diane, to Scandalous Women. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you started writing?

Sure. Well, I have been writing historical fiction for almost 20 years, beginning with Courtesan, a novel based on the true, epic love story of Henri II and Diane de Poitiers—who was the unofficial Renaissance queen of France. It was a story that changed my life since I was driven to tell it to an American audience to such an extent that I gave up the final portion of a doctoral degree in psychology in order to go to France and finish the story. That is probably a good thing since I have been blessed enough to say that The Queen’s Mistake is my 11th historical novel and I have never looked back. But I like to believe that my books perhaps encompass the two worlds of psychology and fiction, bringing to life characters, their troubles and their triumphs, in a human and believable way. At least that has always been my goal.

What led you to choose Catherine Howard as the heroine of The Queen's Mistake?

Because I began my writing career in the Renaissance, I think I have a special fondness for those stories. It is most definitely my favorite period in which to immerse myself and spend a year. Catherine Howard’s story was a challenge because it is not one that ends well, obviously, and also if one read only the most basic information about her, it would be easy to see her as simply an empty-headed girl who got what she deserved. So there was my challenge! When I began to research her, that was not my take at all and, as with so many of my other characters, I was driven to make Catherine human, and to bring her to life in a 21st Century manner, painted across a 16th Century backdrop, since many of her struggles (love, promiscuity, commitment, honor) are things young women struggle with even today.

Tell us about the research. Was there anything you learned about Catherine that you didn’t know before?

I always do my research both in the U.S. and, in this case, in England, but always whatever country in which the book is set; France, Italy, Scotland. I need to be able to see the places about which I write, see some of the actual clothing if possible, furniture, tapestries, just really get a sense of how my characters lived in order to be able, hopefully, to bring them to life for readers. That was an early lesson I learned directly from the late icon Irving Stone, author of The Agony and The Ecstasy.

I discovered a great many things about Catherine Howard in the process of writing the book, mainly about her true care and concern for her husband during their short marriage, in spite of his dissipated condition and his violent mood swings and fits of temper at the time.

The perception of Catherine Howard is usually that of a silly, flighty, not very bright young woman. David Starkey refers to her as the ‘sexy teenager.’ Do you think this reputation is justified?

Initially, probably yes in some ways. There is little doubt that she was promiscuous. But I think through the course of her life she changed and matured. She most certainly worried about Henry and his health and tried, in her way, to be a good wife to him.

Catherine Howard was remarkably promiscuous at an early age, having consensual relationships with a variety of partners. Was that unusual for the time? And how was she able to get away with it without getting caught?

Not unusual for one in her circumstance, raised with a certain amount of privilege then left in boredom often to her own devices. As The Queen’s Mistake shows, she was able to get away with the behavior because she was left largely unattended by her uninterested grandmother.

Catherine Howard is very young when she marries Henry VIII who was fifty years old and had already been married four times. Do you think that Catherine ever loved Henry?

As I researched the story and began to write, I came to believe that, yes, Catherine did love Henry, in a way. There is certainly evidence that she took tender care of him and worried after his health. The likelihood of that being a passionate love however is certainly diminished by his physical condition at the time, as well as his turbulent history with wives-- which would have frightened any young woman who felt the potential for being next in line. Add to that, that I believe her heart was given over to Thomas Culpeper before she married Henry, and I think a more loyal love mixed with friendship and conern is likely.

What do you think Catherine’s fatal mistake was? Do you think that her fate was inevitable or was there something that she could have done to change things?

Great question! I don’t know however if it was one fatal mistake that she made, or rather a series of them that led to her sad end. In some ways, I do think it was inevitable because Henry was bound to discover her love for Culpeper, thanks to the jockeying for position at court by so many ambitious rivals to her power, and that there was little she could do about that once she had been presented to him as a virgin and she chose to allow that ruse. Naturally, having no contact at all with Culpeper would likely have helped. But considering their daily proximity and love for one another, that likely sealed her fate.

Both Thomas Howard, the Duke of Norfolk and the Dowager Duchess of Norfolk claim that their actions are for their families. How much does ambition play a part in the story of Catherine Howard? Do you think that in some ways she was just a pawn?

I think it had everything to do with it and Catherine was a complete pawn. Add to that the poor thing was incredibly naïve--- not about human nature or men of course, but about the mature workings of the world, having been raised out in the country for much of the time, away from the complexities of court, where she could have gained some perspective and gravitas, in the way that other young maids of honor had, and I think it is a tragedy in the making right there.

The Tudors are wildly popular, it seems like every month more and more books are published during this time period. Why do you think the Tudors continue to be popular?

Another good question, one which I have asked myself. I think in part it is the American audience’s familiarity with the subject, the common language, as well as the notion of anyone who had six wives and many mistresses, just the notion of that is fascinating to people I think. And he was such a different character during his lifetime. For example, the Henry VIII of The Queen’s Mistake is an entirely different character from the younger, fit and handsome Henry of The Secret Bride, or my upcoming The Queen’s Rival.

You’ve also written a novel about Henry VIII’s sister, Mary Boleyn called The Secret Bride. I have to ask, have you watched The Tudors? And if you have what did you think of what they did to Mary’s story?

I did watch the first season, yes. While I enjoyed some of the elements of such a stylized, “current” representation of the subject, obviously trying to bring it to a broader market, there were just way too many inconsistencies and alterations of actual history for me.

What are you working on next?

Up next is The Queen’s Rival, the story of Henry VIII’s first official mistress, Elizabeth Blount, known as Bess, during the time of his first queen, Catherine of Aragon. Bess’s son, Henry Duke of Richmond, was the only illegitimate child Henry ever publicly acknowledged, one he overly indulged and provided for, and who quite well might have become his successor, had he not died a sudden and mysterious death… It’s a remarkable story I hope everyone will look for.

For more information about Diane and her books check out her web-site.

Also remember there are still 3 more days to enter to win a copy of Diane's book. Just leave a comment, and you will be entered to win. If you are not already a follower, and you sign up to follow the blog, that's an extra entry. And if you twitter about the giveaway, that's two more entries!

Scandalous Interview with Donna Woolfolk Cross

"Engaging . . . Pope Joan has all the elements: love, sex, violence, duplicity, and long-buried secrets."--Los Angeles Times Book Review

For a thousand years men have denied her existence--Pope Joan, the woman who disguised herself as a man and rose to rule Christianity for two years. Now this compelling novel animates the legend with a portrait of an unforgettable woman who struggles against restrictions her soul cannot accept.When her older brother dies in a Viking attack, the brilliant young Joan assumes his identity and enters a Benedictine monastery where, as Brother John Anglicus, she distinguishes herself as a scholar and healer. Eventually drawn to Rome, she soon becomes enmeshed in a dangerous mix of powerful passion and explosive politics that threatens her life even as it elevates her to the highest throne in the Western world.

"Brings the savage ninth century vividly to life in all its alien richness. An enthralling, scholarly historical novel."--Rebecca Fraser, Author of The Brontes

Q. Welcome to Scandalous Women Donna! Can you tell us a little about yourself and how you came to writing?

I'm the daughter of two writers: my father, William Woolfolk, wrote 20 novels and won an Emmy for his scripts on the the TV show "The Defenders". My mother, Dorothy Woolfolk, wrote the "Donna Rockford" detective series. They met when both were working in the Golden Age of Comics--my father writing "Superman" and my mother writing "Lois Lane". (is that "meet cute" or what?). I saw what they endured to write--the long hours, the "don't-get-out-of-your-pajamas-until-noon" routine, the despair when creation was going badly--and decided that the writing life was definitely not for me!

But after graduating with a degree in English from the University of Pennsylvania, I realized that I was basically unemployable--for everyone already spoke English! I tried a stint at a publishing house in England for a year--but in the end decided that I didn't want to expatriate myself for life. I tried a year at a Madison Avenue advertising agency in NYC--and decided that helping create toilet paper commercials wasn't the way I wanted to spend my life. I taught writing for many years at an Upstate New York College and while there was much that I found enjoyable and rewarding in this occupation, the "paper load" was crushing. In the end, I realized that the best (non-criminal) way for me to earn a living was by writing.

Q. Saint Joan is much better known than your heroine, Pope Joan. Why is that, and what differences do you see between these two women?

Saint Joan, also known as Joan of Arc, was an admirable woman, no doubt about it. But she was a much more typical "woman religious" than my heroine. Joan of Arc was an ignorant peasant, unable even to read or write. She had to mark the documents that consigned her to the flames with an "X", for she couldn't sign her name. She was also a virgin--a very important component of female sainthood (in France, she is called "Jeanne la Pucelle"--Joan the Virgin). She had a mystical connection to God; He spoke to her and told her what to do. This kind of mystical connection with God is very typical of female saints--and it in no way overturns the traditional view of women as the "lesser of the sexes"--for the Bible says that God speaks preferentially to "the least among us".

Pope Joan, in contrast, was a woman of brilliant intellect. All the chronicle accounts describe her as a prodigy of learning--just like Mozart was a prodigy of music. She was, simply put, the smartest person of her day. She was NOT a virgin--as those familiar with her story know. She had no mystical connection with God, nor is she especially known for the purity of her faith. She was a woman who wielded power--real power, secular power (for the papacy back in the ninth century was every bit as much a secular as a religious office)--and she wielded this power with integrity and compassion.

In my view, this makes her a much more "accessible" heroine than Jeanne d'Arc. She was a flawed and very human woman--certainly no saint--but one who affected her world greatly, and who left a wonderful legacy of female empowerment through learning to future generations.

Q. One of the most amazing things about the book is your recreation of 9th century Europe. I felt as if I were really there. How did you go about researching the book?

In a word: painstakingly. The research took over seven years. But one of the things I love when I read historical fiction is a palpable sense of time and place--the feeling that one is actually there, eating that food, drinking that wine, worshiping those gods. So I tried hard to create this in my novel.

Q. How would it have been possible for a woman to pass herself off as a man for so long and under such circumstances? How would a woman be able to hide her menstrual periods, and the disposal of the evidence of a period, since they did not have disposable products?

From our understanding women used rags and washed and reused them. There was not enough cloth available that she could have just thrown them away or burned the rags. In Pope Joan's situation, how would she have been able to conceal this?Good questions, Elizabeth--and the first that occurred to me when I learned of Joan's story. "Impossible", I thought. "For a woman to pull off such a disguise--in so public a role--for so long--and go undiscovered? Can't be done."
Those doubts were laid to rest with only two weeks of research. Turns out that we women are SO darn good at male disguise! We've been pulling it off with enormous success throughout history--often in conditions much more difficult than Joan's. Over 400 women are known to have fought in our own Civil War (both sides, North and South). Military uniforms were much more "body-revealing" than the loose robes worn in the ninth century. And these 'male imposter" soldiers had to sleep in tents, or in open fields, right beside men! What, one wonders, did these women do about their menstrual periods? In my novel, I explain how Joan pulled this off in the ninth century--but you have to read the novel to find out!

Proof that women can successfully master this disguise is evidenced by the legions of women who have done it successfully throughout history. In the Author's Note at the end of my novel, I give many examples. Most recently, you might want to check out the book "Self-Made Man"--a book written in 2006 by a woman who disguised herself as a man and entered a monastery for three months--and no one guessed that she was a woman.

So women CAN pull off male disguise because we HAVE done so, over and over again, throughout time. Turns out that the interesting question about Joan's story isn't "How did she do it?", but "Why did she do it?" Which leads nicely into your next question.

Q. As your novel makes clear, there was considerable hazard in such an imposture. What would drive a woman to take such a risk?

The ninth century was a very misogynistic age. From pulpits all over Europe, women were denounced with anti-female diatribes like the following: "And do you not know that you are Eve--the gate of the devil, the traitor of the tree, the first deserter of Divine Law...on account of the death you deserved, even the Son of God had to die." You can see where women might have had a bit of trouble with "self-esteem" in the ninth century!

Women's rights were non-existent; basically they were the "property" of their husbands or fathers. By law, they could be beaten by their men; the only law on the books was one regulating the size of the club that their husband or father could use. Women were not allowed in Church for thirty days after they had given birth, for they were considered to be "unclean". Make that sixty days if the child they birthed was a girl! Above all, learning in women was discouraged, for a learned woman was considered to be "unnatural". One theory of the day was that the size of a woman's brain and of her uterus were inversely proportional--that is, the more a woman learned, the less likely she would ever bear children. (and if only that were true, wouldn't birth control be a snap? You don't want to have a baby--read a book!).

Into this misogynistic world came this brilliant woman--a "prodigy of learning". Such a woman, in such a world, would have had no alternative if she wanted to be anybody, do anything, exercise in any way her formidable qualities of mind, heart and spirit--other than to disguise herself as a man. Make no mistake about it; this is not simply a story of the "bad old days". Women all over the world are STILL fighting the very same battle that Joan did to have access to education--and being opposed by some of the very same arguments. This is why I think Joan's story is inspirational. And this is why I had my own daughter, and future generations of daughters, very much in mind as I wrote this novel.

Thanks Donna! You can purchase Pope Joan at Barnes & Noble, or Amazon.com

Scandalous Interview: Kris Waldherr, Author of Doomed Queens

I've been trying to be fiscally responsible by not buying new books, but I ended up in Barnes & Noble on my birthday where I found the perfect book for me. Doomed Queens by Kris Waldherr (Broadway Books). It spoke to be from the New Book's shelf and I had to have it.

The subtitle is Royal Women Who Met Bad Ends from Cleopatra to Princess Di. Not only is this book exceedlingly fun and well written but it's illustrated by Kris as well. The minute I saw Marie Antoinette on the cover, I knew I had to have it.

Here's the book's description on Amazon:

"Illicit love, madness, betrayal--it isn’t always good to be the queen.

Marie Antoinette, Anne Boleyn, and Mary, Queen of Scots. What did they have in common? For a while they were crowned in gold, cosseted in silk, and flattered by courtiers. But in the end, they spent long nights in dark prison towers and were marched to the scaffold where they surrendered their heads to the executioner. And they are hardly alone in their undignified demises. Throughout history, royal women have had a distressing way of meeting bad ends--dying of starvation, being burned at the stake, or expiring in childbirth while trying desperately to produce an heir. They always had to be on their toes and all too often even devious plotting, miraculous pregnancies, and selling out their sisters was not enough to keep them from forcible consignment to religious orders. From Cleopatra (suicide by asp), to Princess Caroline (suspiciously poisoned on her coronation day), there’s a gory downside to being blue-blooded when you lack a Y chromosome.

Kris Waldherr’s elegant little book is a chronicle of the trials and tribulations of queens across the ages, a quirky, funny, utterly macabre tribute to the dark side of female empowerment. Over the course of fifty irresistibly illustrated and too-brief lives, Doomed Queens charts centuries of regal backstabbing and intrigue. We meet well-known figures like Catherine of Aragon, whose happy marriage to Henry VIII ended prematurely when it became clear that she was a starter wife--the first of six. And we meet forgotten queens like Amalasuntha, the notoriously literate Ostrogoth princess who overreached politically and was strangled in her bath. While their ends were bleak, these queens did not die without purpose. Their unfortunate lives are colorful cautionary tales for today’s would-be power brokers--a legacy of worldly and womanly wisdom gathered one spectacular regal ruin at a time."

You can see why I had to buy this book! It's filled with interesting tidbits, not just about the usual suspects, but about little known Queens as well. Of course I had to immediately email her so that I could share this book with everyone.

Q: Can you tell the readers a little about your background before you were published?

I've worked in publishing for most of my adult life -- first as a children's book illustrator and designer, later as a full-fledged author -- so we'd have to go back to my childhood to talk about my pre-publishing background. My childhood was spent in a fiercely matriarchal household, where the women appeared to possess mysterious powers and quirks. One family story tells that my maternal grandmother, who was born in England, was the seventh daughter of a seventh daughter. As such, she supposedly was born with second sight and often dreamt of things that came to pass, usually involving unfortunate deaths of various male relatives. A great aunt on that same side claimed that we were related by blood to gypsies as well as royalty. This, along with a too-early exposure to the PBS series "The Six Wives of Henry VIII", lead to an early fascination with all things royal, English, and doomed. Even as a child, I read voraciously about tragic female monarchs, such as Jane Grey, Cleopatra, and Marie Antoinette. Later as an adult, I traveled to many of the places where these tragic queens lived and died: Hever Castle, the Tower of London, Versailles, the Forum.


Q: I’m a big history geek and one of the reasons I started Scandalous Women was to share the lives of these amazing women that I was reading about. What inspired you to create Doomed Queens?

Most of my previous books were about goddesses, whom I wrote about because I hoped to empower women into realizing that we had this whole sacred history, if you will. But after a while, I realized that for women to better claim power, it made more sense to look into the dark side of female empowerment, specifically into the lives of tragic female monarchs. Considered anew, these queens' stories resonated for me as cautionary fables for modern women struggling to survive in a man's world. And so, Doomed Queens was born.

Q. Given that Doomed Queens is a work of history, how is it relevant today?

Though few women are now beheaded, die in childbirth, or are forced into arranged marriages as they once were, the archetype of the "doomed queen" still exists. Though we've come a long way, I do think that society is still uncomfortable with women wielding power. This message is mirrored in best-selling exposes of hellacious women bosses, such as The Devil Wears Prada or The Nanny Diaries. Let's be honest: If Anna Wintour was a man, I seriously doubt there would have been a Devil Wears Armani.

Q. While Doomed Queens is full of humor, I was struck by the moral you include to each Queens story. What was the impetus to include that at the end of each entry?

I wanted the book to be like a Victorian penny dreadful, so it made sense to include a cautionary moral at the end of each entry. Humor aside, I think a lot of the morals are actually useful advice for women who want to get ahead without losing their heads. Plus they were a lot of fun to write.

Q. What about Hilary Clinton? Although she lost the Democratic nomination for President, the fact that she came so close prove that society is getting more comfortable with women in positions of power?

I would like to hope so. In that context, it's also interesting to consider the example of (love or hate her) Sarah Palin. Even if Palin didn't win the vice presidency, she bears similarities with unfortunate woman monarchs of old. For example, you could view her relationship with John McCain as an arranged dynastic marriage; I was shocked to learn that he'd only met with her once before offering her the nomination.

Q. Another biographer, Amanda Foreman, wrote once that biographers are notorious for falling in love with the subjects. Did that happen with you?

I think there's truth to that. However, since Doomed Queens features fifty royal women, I'd have to say that my experience was more akin to speed dating. I'd become infatuated with one monarch, but then I'd need to write about the next. Despite this, there were some queens that it was very hard to move on from because of my affection or fascination with them: Anne Boleyn, Jane Grey, Juana of Castile.

Q. In your research, did you come across an account of a Queen, doomed or otherwise, that you admired above all others?

My mind immediately runs to England's Elizabeth I, though she certainly doesn't need any fresh accolades. When you consider the circumstances of her birth—she was the daughter of Anne Boleyn—it's amazing Elizabeth survived to wear the crown for as long as she did. Elizabeth also mastered the "biology is destiny" lesson that plagued so many Doomed Queens, including her mother. She refused to marry, though she did not hesitate to play her suitors as skillfully as a fickle Southern belle. This choice meant that Elizabeth did not have to undergo the trauma of childbirth, which proved so deadly for many women of her era. However, this also meant she was left without a direct heir, which created other problems after her death from old age. One quote I love from Elizabeth cannily confronted her contemporaries' prejudices about her gender's ability to rule. She said, "I know I have the body of a weak and feeble woman, but I have the heart and stomach of a king." What a way to silence your enemies!

Q. What makes someone a Doomed Queen? Did you find a common trait amongst them? Was there a moment when they could have changed their fate?

Aside from sheer bad luck—and who can predict that?—the core traits for a doomed queen often comes down to either overreaching politically or biology is destiny. Most of these queens were thrust into dynastic marriages as soon as they hit puberty, like royal hostages. Not surprisingly, these alliances were unhappy for the most part. But even when they were romantically happy, they were dogged by issues of inbreeding, infertility, or postpartum death.

In terms of changing fate, you have to look at the queen's individual circumstances. Someone like Olympias, the mother of Alexander the Great, allowed her voracious ambition to push her luck too far. However, someone like Blanche of Bourbon could not have changed her fate. After all, she was considered the possession of her parents, and had to follow their will. So when they chose to marry Blanche off to accurately-named Pedro the Cruel, there wasn't much she could do but submit. Eventually, Pedro arranged for Blanche's murder and got away with it.

Q. Where did you start in terms of research for the book? How long did it take you to write Doomed Queens from research to last draft?

Overall, the whole book took about eighteen months. But this was working at a very intense pace. That written, much of the research, especially in regards to Tudor and Elizabethan history, was already under my belt.

Q. Doomed Queens is written and illustrated by you. What made you decide on an illustrated book?

Since my background is as a book illustrator and designer, it's hard for me to avoid thinking of a book without also considering the art and design. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, I wanted the book to look like a Victorian penny dreadful, which were used in their day to present stories of damsels in distress -- an appropriate format, given the subject matter.

Q. We don’t have a monarchy in the United States, but if we did, who do you think our contemporary Queens would be? I noticed that you didn’t include Princess Grace of Monaco, who while not a Queen, was the closest we’ve come to an American Princess.

I did consider including Princess Grace as well as Jacqueline Onassis. My original concept of the book was more expansive in terms of what a doomed queen could be; for example, I planned to include tragic "queens" of cultural movements, such as Elizabeth Siddal of the Preraphaelites, who died from a laudanum overdose. But as I researched the book, I decided that it was more interesting to limit the entries to those who actually had a royal title. Though I did make an exception for Eva Peron. I thought Evita's life story presented a necessary transition between royals of old and the modern tragedy of Princess Diana, when it came to illustrating how the media now shapes royal identity, for better and worse.

In terms of contemporary queens in the United States, our closest corollary is the First Lady. It will be interesting to see how Michelle Obama shapes that role. Otherwise, I'd have to say that celebrities are the new queens, at least while they're popular enough to control the media and command fortunes. For example, Oprah was able to undermine Hillary Clinton's run for the White House by endorsing Barack Obama. On a more mundane level, the contract riders for some celebrities don't seem that dissimilar from Marie Antoinette at Versailles. J. Lo. must have a white dressing room stocked with with white flowers, white candles, and white furniture; Mariah Carey requires Cristal with a bendy straw. I don't know if this is true, but there's a rumor that Madonna's underlings are not allowed to look her in the eye and or address her without first being spoken to. If that doesn't sound like royalty, I don't know what does.

Q. Beheading or poison, which would you choose?

I hope that writing Doomed Queens would grant me the wisdom to avoid such a fate! That written, I used to think that beheading was the way to go, especially if there was a guillotine involved -- one quick blow and it's over. However, a neuropsychologist friend recently explained to me the physical reasons why beheading would not be painless, and how you'd be aware through much of it. So I guess I'd have to opt for poison instead.

Thanks Kris for stopping by Scandalous Women. You read more about Kris and her other books and read her blog here. Or just order the book from Amazon, Powells, or Barnes & Noble.

Interview with Eleanor Herman - author of "Mistress of the Vatican"

Q: Since 2004, you have published three books, the best selling Sex with the King and its follow up, Sex with Queens, and now Mistress of the Vatican. Can you tell the readers a little about your background before you were published?



I was a journalist for a variety of publications, and from 1989-2002 worked for Monch Publishing, based in Bonn, Germany. As their associate publisher of North America, I worked for their defense and political journals, especially with the embassies of Partner for Peace (former Warsaw Pact) nations. I loved the travel. During every business trip, I would take a couple of days to see the castles and museums. But I always wanted to write a book. In 2001 my mom died very suddenly, and I realized I needed to push forward with my dream before Death tapped me on the shoulder, too. I quit my job and used my inheritance to support myself while I wrote Sex with Kings.


Q: I’m a big history geek and one of the reasons I started Scandalous Women was to share the lives of these amazing women that I was reading about. Can you tell us a little bit about how you first learned about Olimpia Maidalchini? And was it a hard sell to your editor and publisher given that very few people knew her story? Or was it easier, given that your first two books were bestsellers?



A fellow at the Italian Cultural Institute clued me into Olimpia when I was working with him on a lecture on Medici mistresses. I had never heard of her before, but looked her up and was fascinated.

You are right that publishers prefer books on well-known historical characters. That’s why we keep reading about Anne Boleyn and Marie Antoinette over and over again, while hundreds of fascinating people who are less known get overlooked. I think the publisher bought Mistress right away because of the success of Sex with Kings and Sex with the Queen, and I think because the book was about the Vatican, which is a hot topic after The Da Vinci Code.



Q. Olimpia took a huge risk in defying her father. It could easily have turned against her, but she seemed to have had no fear. How do you think this stamped her personality?


I worked with a psychologist on Olimpia’s personality. He said that almost getting locked up in a convent stamped her personality for the rest of her life. No amount of money or power could make her feel safe enough. She was always terrified that men would try to lock her up. In acquiring money and power to protect herself, she alienated powerful men, and needed more money and power to feel safe. This became a vicious cycle.


Q. The relationship between Olimpia and her brother-in-law Giambattista Pamphili was unusual for the time. Do you think it was strictly platonic? It seems that people found it impossible to believe that the two were just friends. That the only way Olimpia could have so much influence was if they were lovers.


It’s impossible to say 100 percent. I suppose there are some relationships – either of different genders or even the same gender – where one person is dominant and the other subservient, and this doesn’t necessarily mean that sex is going on between them. Certainly their contemporaries thought Olimpia and the pope had a sexual relationship, though this, too, doesn’t necessarily mean it was true. The psychologist felt there probably was a romantic relationship. But it was Olimpia’s power – not the sex – that bothered the cardinals and ambassadors.



Q. It occurred to me while reading the book that the Catholic Church at this time seems to have much more in common with our political system, with the lobbying, the bribery, the nepotism, the stealing, than with actual faith, particularly when it came to electing the next pope. Both Innocent X and Alexander VII tried to curb some of the worst excesses of the church but with little success.


The papacy was also a monarchy, and the pope was a king of a nation stretching across the center of Italy to the Adriatic. This fact had a great influence on the kind of men who were elected pope – ambitious, corrupt, manipulative, sometimes violent. They had to be that way in order to survive, and ensure the survival of their families and the nation itself in those brutal times. I think the best thing that ever happened to the Church was when it lost its temporal dominion, and the pope could focus on spiritual matters rather than lobbing cannonballs at other Christian nations.


Q. I was struck by how Olimpia seemed to embody that old saying ‘Power corrupts and Absolute power corrupts absolutely.’ She made several missteps including not cultivating her daughter-in-law the Princess of Rossano. Is it possible that in her need for security that, her judgment started to falter?


Olimpia developed a hard outer shell as a defense. She was terribly jealous of the princess, who was much younger, more beautiful, of blue blood, and highly educated. The older Olimpia should have befriended the younger one and worked against her quietly. Sometimes it’s better to have your enemy by your side so you know what they are doing. And exiling her own son and his wife made Olimpia look bad to the pope and the entire nation.


Q. The rift between Olimpia and Innocent X, after so many years of closeness, in a way seemed to be a long time coming, but do you think it could have been avoided?


Again, I think Olimpia made a tactical error by being so vocal about her displeasure. Storming into the Vatican and berating the pope just infuriated him. She should have charmed him, instead, pretending all his ideas were excellent, and then quietly worked to sabotage her enemies. She was just too straightforward with him. She learned her lesson, though. Once he brought her back from exile she smiled sweetly as she prepared her ultimate revenge on him.


Q. You mention the myth or legend of Pope Joan several times in the book. Why do you think Olimpia's riveting story has been forgotten by history while the story of Pope Joan continues to fascinate? Do you believe that the Church is still uncomfortable with the idea that a woman was that close to actually governing as Pope?


The pope after Innocent already started suppressing Olimpia’s story. He didn’t even want to bring his own sister-in-law to Rome, afraid this might awaken memories of the woman who ran the Vatican. It seems to me the Church is extremely uncomfortable about any mention of women having power, though I am not sure why. They duly quote the new Catechism that says women are honored because of the Virgin Mary, but excuse me, if you really want to honor us give us equal opportunity in the Church. They talk the talk but don’t walk the walk. Female priests would give so much compassion, dedication, and warmth to the Church. Plus women rarely sexually abuse children. I am not sure why women would want to belong to a faith where they have to sit in the back of the bus, even though the theology is beautiful and the history goes straight back to Jesus.


The most devout Catholics are beside themselves that I wrote that in the first centuries of Christianity, there is evidence of female priests in various parts of the Roman Empire. But as paganism slowly became Catholicism, it makes sense that far-flung regions would have turned their pagan priestesses into Christian ones, for a while at least. Perhaps the Pope Joan legend is well-known because it is so fabulously ridiculous. Olimpia’s story is completely true, which must make the Church more uncomfortable than a blatant fable.



Q. It’s hard not to wonder what Olimpia could have become if she been born in this century instead of the 17th. What do you think she would have thought of women like Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton? Would she have been envious of their advantages?



I have often thought of what Olimpia would have been if she had been born in the mid to late twentieth century. Perhaps a Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi, or the head of a Fortune 500 company. She would not have had to fight so hard, or be so afraid. It would have been a kinder era for her, as it is for all women. I sometimes wonder if modern women understand all of our advantages, or if we take them for granted. I hope, when women read my books, they will see how far we have come.



Q. Another biographer, Amanda Foreman, wrote once that biographers are notorious for falling in love with the subjects. Did that happen with you?



Absolutely. I fell in love with Olimpia, even though she did some awful things. She was so alone in the world – her parents were eager to lock her up just because they were cheap and didn’t want to give her a decent dowry. She fought so hard, and was inwardly very fragile and afraid. She also had a tremendous earthy sense of humor, which, I think, was another way of dealing with her fear and pain. I wish I could go back in time and visit her, and put my arms around her.



Q. Where did you start in terms of research for the book? How long did it take you to write Mistress of the Vatican from research to first draft?



Research for this third book took two years, a full year longer than the first two. Much of the reading was in Italian, and seventeenth-century Italian at that. I made three research trips to Italy to dig through archives and visit her palaces. I wanted to tell her story on the vibrant stage of seventeenth-century Rome – a place of magnificent pageantry and utter wretchedness. I hoped to craft a time machine, so that the reader actually goes back there and understands what life was like, so that she can hear the horses’ hooves outside Olimpia’s door. I found a book published in 1657 by a retired butler on how to run a noble family’s Roman household – what wines to buy each month, when to order hogs’ carcasses, how to reupholster the carriage and deal with drunken servants. I also read about a hundred books on Catholic history and theology to fully understand the organization over which Olimpia wielded so much power.



Q: You have been known to wear period dress to promote your books. Was that your own idea and what do you think is the most effective way for a writer to promote his/her books?


Period dress gets attention, but each author has to be fully comfortable with how they are promoting their books. I loved it, though I have become a bit tired of corsets and now choose my costume events carefully. And yes, it was my own idea. The publisher thought people might view me as a nut, but USA Today said I was a marketing genius. I don’t know that it made a whole lot of difference, but it was fun.


Q. Having tackled the sex lives of the Kings and Queens of Europe and now the Vatican, what are you planning to work on next?


I am finishing up Murder in the Garden of God, which could be subtitled “Hamlet in the Vatican” with all the murders and intricacies of plot. It is about the family of Pope Sixtus V in the 1580s. I have never seen a plot like this, and it is all true! I found a 400-year-old Italian manuscript with all kinds of gossipy stories about Sixtus and the murder. I fell in love with Sixtus, too.




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